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00:00:00:27 - 00:00:28:25
Tom Haederle
Welcome to Advancing Health. Changes and challenges. That pretty well sums up the state of American health care in the last quarter of 2025. In this month's Leadership Dialog podcast hosted by Tina Freese Decker, president and CEO of Corewell Health and the 2025 Board Chair of the American Hospital Association, we get a briefing from Stacey Hughes, AHA’s executive vice president of government relations and public policy, on the outlook for ending the government shutdown that began October 1st...
00:00:28:27 - 00:00:40:19
Tom Haederle
insights on what's expected on the legislative front for the remainder of the year...and an update on a host of issues important to the field.
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Tina Freese Decker
Thank you, everyone for joining us today. I'm Tina Freese Decker, president and CEO of Corewell Health and the board chair for the American Hospital Association. I did my first leadership dialogue with Stacey Hughes, and there have been so many new changes and challenges, opportunities, developments since January that I felt that it was the right time to bring Stacey back for an update.
00:00:59:29 - 00:01:21:17
Tina Freese Decker
I can't wait to hear your insights, Stacey, on all that is playing out in Washington, D.C. and how the American Hospital Association is continuing to advance this work on behalf of our field. So, you and I have had lots of conversations over the past year. I am so grateful for your expertise. And just understanding what it feels like, what it's about, and what we should be doing as we go forward.
00:01:21:19 - 00:01:35:22
Tina Freese Decker
So let's start with what is top of mind for many of us, the current federal government shutdown. Can you give us a sense of how this government shutdown is the same or different from previous times? What do you think's going to happen?
00:01:35:24 - 00:01:55:22
Stacey Hughes
I'm so grateful that you invited me, and it's so fun to talk to you always and appreciate your leadership through all these different this this year for sure and heading into Q4, which is nice, but still a lot of challenges. So yeah, to your point, the shutdown, what is different? One, it's a full shutdown. The last shutdown in 2018 and 19, Tina, was a partial. And HHS was funded.
00:01:55:23 - 00:02:19:23
Stacey Hughes
Department of Defense was funded. This is a 100% shutdown of full government. And so that's really different. I think second, one of the reasons a government shutdown, which I know we'll talk more about, is the concern Democrats have and want to use this opportunity to have leverage to get Republicans to support extending the EPTCs. I say that's a second difference in that this is going to play out in real time.
00:02:19:24 - 00:02:39:18
Stacey Hughes
You know, as we're speaking now and 21 days from now during this shutdown, or maybe it reopens, people are going to get their notices about their premium subsidies and those that have gone away during this time. So you've got sort of this dramatic dynamic that Democrats are kind of banking on so that people, everyday Americans, understand what a shutdown is.
00:02:39:18 - 00:02:57:13
Stacey Hughes
So for those two reasons it's very different. I will say in a lot of people ask me, how will it end? And, really nobody knows. I'll just add a few more facts about kind of this particular shutdown. You know, in terms of where we are, they've got about five payroll periods that are going to be coming up that are important.
00:02:57:13 - 00:03:20:17
Stacey Hughes
One I think it's been highly reported, which is the active military paycheck stops on October 15th. The second full government federal government employee paychecks stops between the 20th and 31st. Senate employees stop the 20th. You know, go down the line. October 31st, the House employees stop receiving their paycheck. So that's kind of a an important mash up right there in terms of will that be impactful?
00:03:20:24 - 00:03:40:25
Stacey Hughes
They are moving money around to try to protect the WIC program. That funding is also expired. So there could be some action forcing events. I will say the president is going to be in Israel this weekend, rightly so, for an important ceasefire. And that's going to really occupy the news cycle till Tuesday. So I think we get back here Tuesday and we're kind of still stymied, Tina.
00:03:40:28 - 00:03:53:13
Stacey Hughes
So I don't know how this ends, but both sides feel like they're doing well. And I think frankly starting Tuesday it's a test of political stamina. You know, which party can withstand the things we just talked about.
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Tina Freese Decker
Right. And it's challenging because all of those impact people.
00:03:56:26 - 00:03:57:09
Stacey Hughes
That's right.
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Tina Freese Decker
The people, the federal workers. So on. And so what's a way to get unstuck from that?
00:04:02:01 - 00:04:27:08
Stacey Hughes
For sure. And I think for us, you know, because it is the Department of HHS, we also have some things that are affecting rural patients, in particular the telehealth pieces. As you know, that program expired September 30th when the CR was unsuccessful. And so did hospital at home. And, you know, that does affect real lives. According to CMS, there are about 1200 patients that were in the system during that month, between about 419 hospitals.
00:04:27:08 - 00:04:39:26
Stacey Hughes
And those patients, almost all had to be moved under the fact that the program was no longer authorized. So we feel it a little bit more than we normally would acutely. And with some of these programs not on the mandatory side, but it is real life implications.
00:04:39:28 - 00:04:56:11
Tina Freese Decker
True. So you mentioned this before. One of the sticking points is the enhanced premium tax credits, which, you know, expire at the end of the year. Why is extending those tax credits so important for hospitals and our members people? And what do you think is going to happen with those?
00:04:56:13 - 00:05:23:01
Stacey Hughes
Yeah. Boy, that's there's a great question. A couple things. Certainly we just came off the OBBA debate, right? And that already includes scoring estimates that up to 10 million people will be displaced from coverage over the next ten years. If you were to lose the enhanced subsidies which were part of President Biden's Inflation Reduction Act, as well as his American Rescue Plan, if those were to expire, you would see at least another 5 million individuals that would go from insured to uninsured status.
00:05:23:03 - 00:05:46:03
Stacey Hughes
But in addition, you know, under the four years of these enhanced subsidies, about 10 million people have come on the rolls and it's a substantial part of their ability to afford their care. 19 or 20 million people will see some reduction in their actual subsidy to pay for their premiums. And even if you get some of it, some people say a $12 differential to be the choice of staying covered or not covered.
00:05:46:06 - 00:06:06:19
Stacey Hughes
So that's number one was to create more people who are uninsured that would come through our doors. But importantly, also in terms of our own fiscal health, you know, we would estimate that's about a $28 billion loss of our ability to continue to provide services over the next ten years. So it's very real to hospitals in terms of what it would mean to our overall day-to-day ability to serve patients.
00:06:06:21 - 00:06:31:29
Tina Freese Decker
Right. And it is impacting in communities where we have payers offering the products and some not offering the products. So it's a very dynamic time happening on the ground. But then also what will happen in D.C. So thanks for that update. There are some more things from a comprehensive health care package that come together, such as structural changes to how pharmacy benefit managers operate or changes to Medicare Advantage.
00:06:32:02 - 00:06:36:24
Tina Freese Decker
What do you think is going to be put together in that sort of comprehensive package?
00:06:36:27 - 00:06:56:13
Stacey Hughes
Let's talk about the health part first. I guess I'll say that's where the PBM reform really does lie, and there's probably a combination of MA with regulatory and Hill. But right now is so acrimonious, Tina, I think while there was a lot of bipartisan support for both of those, I think that until they resolve this issue, it is going to be very difficult to restart those bipartisan conversations.
00:06:56:13 - 00:07:19:13
Stacey Hughes
And frankly, the longer this goes on, I think the more it will, you know, spoil the waters for those kind of conversations. In terms of, you know, is there an opportunity in December, you know, we would hope so. As you know, there was some significant proposals, ones that you mentioned, that were left on the cutting room floor last December when we had the health care, you know, end of year package and some other priorities on community health centers in May, as you mentioned.
00:07:19:13 - 00:07:43:15
Stacey Hughes
And so I think there's an opportunity, but it may actually bleed into next year. It's going to be solely dependent on the appropriations process. And once we open the government back up and there's a bipartisan solution for that, the question is how long, right? Is it a bipartisan solution just till next March? And normally our priorities and those types of priorities tend to travel just the length of the amount of time of the continuing resolution.
00:07:43:15 - 00:07:58:07
Stacey Hughes
So I'm not so sure when we'll be at that point of having more permanent PBM reform or MA reform. But the good news is I think the commitment to those are high. So we'll see if they revisit it. But I think they'll pick up where they left off once we can get the appropriations settled.
00:07:58:09 - 00:08:17:15
Tina Freese Decker
Okay. So you talked a little bit about December. I know the American Hospital Association has a full end of the year list of priority items. What are some of those other key issues that your team is tracking? And, you know, immigration, H-1B visa exemptions, maybe some of those. What are you thinking about that that we should be mindful of?
00:08:17:22 - 00:08:41:12
Stacey Hughes
There's no shortage of issues and it's real diverse. You know, I'll start with immigration. You know, I think everyone saw tension around the president's proclamation a couple weeks ago around adding a $100,000 fee going forward, the companies who are sponsoring H-1B visa applicants. And so on that one, we're looking and working very hard with the administration to try to seek exemption for health care workers. And that would be every clinical aspect, right?
00:08:41:12 - 00:09:02:26
Stacey Hughes
It would be lab technicians, physicians, nurses. You know, we are probably only 4.2% or 5% of the total of H-1B visas. So we're hopeful with the demonstrated workforce shortages that exist that we can have a good chance of leaning on the administration to be thoughtful about the exemption process for health care workers, that's number one. Tariffs,
00:09:02:26 - 00:09:29:05
Stacey Hughes
I think you mentioned to me that continues to be an area of concern. You know, we've engaged very significantly with some of the other stakeholders, obviously AbbeMed and some of the other organizations. But for us, you know, a significant part of our PPE, which the president has now threatened a tariff on. Medical devices, which he's just renewed, a threat that an investigation about foreign and national security around tariffs, all of those really impact our domestic supply chain, our ability to access products.
00:09:29:05 - 00:09:48:07
Stacey Hughes
So those two are, you know, I wouldn't say left field, but they continue to occupy a lot of our bandwidth in trying to get some remedies for those two issues. Not to mention we're in that statutory rulemaking season. You know, we're in the part of this of the rule-making process. Our comments have been submitted but the government shut down. But the statutory rules still need to be addressed and worked on.
00:09:48:07 - 00:10:06:27
Stacey Hughes
This is when we spend our time with all the agency leaders, both political and career, and make our case coming off of our submitted comments and the field's comments. So a lot of challenges there, including some proposals on price transparency, obviously 340B, 340B obviously separate from the rule. There's the rebate model.
00:10:06:27 - 00:10:13:05
Stacey Hughes
So a lot is going to occupy our time and trying to influence these next 2 or 3 months for the year , Tina.
00:10:13:07 - 00:10:36:06
Tina Freese Decker
So, Stacy, my final question for you is, you know, you've been in this field for a long time. You know the players, you know the process. What advice can you give to our members as we're hearing about it, navigating through it, trying to be active with our government relations teams and legislative leaders and administrative leaders. What advice can you give to us that we should be doing?
00:10:36:09 - 00:10:53:02
Stacey Hughes
I just think it's engage. Engage, engage, engage. And I think that, you know, while it's a new, you know, group of single party leaders that are in town, I think everyone appreciates being able to hear our story and telling it well and telling it well with data, with real life consequences. And so I think just don't take your foot off the pedal on that.
00:10:53:02 - 00:11:09:12
Stacey Hughes
You know, the whole field really rose up in a way to tell Congress and the executive branch about the impact of the Medicaid cuts that were being considered. And I think we've got to continue to do that as we try to mitigate some of these issues and also make sure we're telling our story where we're innovating. Where we're creating efficiencies.
00:11:09:15 - 00:11:19:11
Stacey Hughes
What we're doing that is helpful in chronic disease. You know, we have a positive story to tell as well. And I think you'll find some, some people are really interested in what we can be doing to help improve health care.
00:11:19:14 - 00:11:38:26
Tina Freese Decker
I think that's a great reminder, Stacy. Of all the positive stories that we have, I was just rounding in one of our hospitals and I'm so impressed by what is happening. There's so many things that are happening to improve patient care that many people, including our legislative leaders, need to understand and recognize and know that they impact that our ability to provide that.
00:11:38:29 - 00:11:51:16
Tina Freese Decker
So thank you so much, Stacy, for your time today, for all of the work you and your team do on behalf of our field. And thank you so much for finding the time to listen to us. We'll be back next month for another Leadership Dialog conversation.
00:11:51:18 - 00:11:53:18
Stacey Hughes
Thank you Tina, appreciate your time.
00:11:53:21 - 00:12:02:03
Tom Haederle
Thanks for listening to Advancing Health. Please subscribe and rate us five stars on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
